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Levels of Ignorance

J

jbsleds

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2009
59
52
18
Idaho
I’ve been thinking a lot about ignorance lately, mine and other peoples’, as it relates to avalanche awareness and safety.
I even looked up the word in the dictionary, here’s a def I found on Wikipedia:
“Ignorance is a state of being uninformed (lack of knowledge). The word "ignorant" is an adjective describing a person in the state of being unaware and is often used as an insult.
Ignorance should be distinguished from stupidity, although both can lead to "unwise" acts. Also, if important information is available, one may fail to acquire it due to lack of intelligence (not realizing its importance, or not understanding it).”

So, with that in mind, and after reading the great threads you all have posted in this forum, I’d like to propose a “Levels of Ignorance” system for avalanche awareness and safety. This chart will identify where a person is on the levels chart and suggest how to deal with their ignorance.

Please consider this a work in progress. You may add, delete or modify it in any way you think would help to refine it.

I’m hoping that eventually a “Levels of Ignorance” chart can be developed that will go into power points in avalanche training and on the back of avalanche conditions cards. For example, levels of avalanche conditions on one side of the card, levels of ignorance on the other. Then, when someone takes out the card, they not only evaluate the avalanche conditions, they can evaluate where they are or where the folks they are riding with are in terms of avalanche safety and awareness and take appropriate action.

I’ll be sending this draft and a link to the thread on the Snowest Forum to the avalanche educators in the Idaho Department of Parks and Rec. You can feel free to send it to avalanche educators you know.

I am not copyrighting this document. It should remain free for all to use. Anyone who does copyright it and uses it for their own profit is a low down scoundrel, miscreant and ignoramus! May they blow a belt deep in the backcountry without a spare while riding alone in wolf country!

Levels of Avalanche Safety Awareness and How to Address Them

Level 1: a person at Level 1 may be a new snowmobiler or someone who has never ridden in avalanche country. They’ve heard little or no information on the topic. Deal with them in a calm and objective manner. Give them concrete, specific information including statistics. Direct them to a local avalanche training center and to at least one good on-line course. Help them register on Snowest and show them the Avalanche Safety Forum.

Level 2: a person at Level 2 has heard or read some information on avalanche safety but has not had a chance to apply it in the field. Encourage them to attend a local field session where they can get hands on experience in avalanche awareness, avoidance and rescue.

Level 3: a person at Level 3 has gone through Levels 1 and 2. They may or may not have actually ridden in avalanche country, but they talk a good story. Ask them if they have written out their will. Ask them if they have prepared their family and friends for their death. Talk to their family members. Ask family members to intervene and talk some sense into this individual.

Level 4: a person at Level 4 has transcended mere ignorance and is now living in the land of STUPIDITY. This person has been through all of the previous levels. They brag about riding in avalanche country. They talk about the avalanches they have triggered. They are heard to say things like, “I’m not worried, I always wear my beacon”. A person at Level 4 may require a full blown intervention. Friends and family may have to gather together and address the issue with this rider. If you find yourself in the mountains with this person, leave his presence immediately and take as many people with you as you can convince. This person is a danger to himself and all those with him.

So, there’s my draft. Do with it as you will. I’m looking forward to seeing how this ends up.

And, most of all, keep talking about this topic with those you know. For example, while sitting in the dentist’s chair the other day, I found out that the spouse of one of the assistants was a rider. She said he liked to ride in the hills. I asked her if he’d had any avy training. She said she didn’t think so. I told her about the 4 deaths recently along with some other info. She said she was going home that night and talk to him about it.
 

smitty5.9

Active member
Premium Member
Mar 14, 2009
38
25
18
Foothills of west side
Notable quotes

I like your idea, here are some things I've heard this year:

"I've never seen an avalanche where I ride"

"I don't ride hills steep enough to slide"

"I'll sit at the bottom and watch so I don't need a beacon and probe"

"I don't need the class - I took a course online"

"Beacons cost too much"

These all fit in the chart somewhere.
 
J

jbsleds

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2009
59
52
18
Idaho
I think I’ve made it clear in the things I’ve written that I don’t have much experience riding in avalanche terrain.

I also said in a post I wrote last week that I realized some of the things I’d said weren’t helpful. I could see that I needed to dial back my comments and focus on my own learning. And that’s what I’m doing.

I’ve been riding snowmobiles for over 30 years. And even though I don’t have a lot of backcountry experience, I do have some. As I’ve looked back on those times I can see that I’ve put myself and those I was riding with into potential avalanche situations. Just lucky that the snowpack was stable (95% of the time) and no one got hurt.

I’m determined not to do that any more.

I’m also determined to make up for lost time. I want to spend as much time as possible enjoying the backcountry while I can still get my leg over the sled. And even though I sometimes find myself wishing I had a bottle of oxygen on my sled and it takes my body two days to recover from all of the climbing, digging and lifting, I can’t wait to get back out there.

So, I’ll keep on learning and looking for ways to use it. And, if I think I have something important to say, I’ll post it here. Others will read it, reply back and let me know what they think. And that’s good. That’s the way this forum should work.
 
M

MVR

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2008
133
48
28
Twisp, WA
I think your a person that has never been on a real ride before.

To an avy educator with 30+ years of mountain riding experience it sounds like jbsleds is trying to be part of the solution- not part of the problem.
Thanks for your efforts jbsleds we're with you.
 
C

cpatts2000

Well-known member
Jan 22, 2008
511
58
28
Winthrop,WA
I think your a person that has never been on a real ride before.

No one is forcing you to be safe in anyway if you don't like what is being posted go somewhere else. I can assure you that I have been on more real rides in avalanche terrain than you have thought about, so for those of us who believe in avy training and being safe. thank you jb for your comments.
 
N
Dec 7, 2007
130
31
28
in your levels, you should address people with skills. The group that i ride with are very well educated in avy conditions and rescue, but sometimes we catch ourselves having blind spots or not having full situational awarness but not on purpose. Or maybe there should be another list of levels that pertain to situational awareness. just a thought...
 
M

Mcx Nytro

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2007
838
82
28
Vernon BC
in your levels, you should address people with skills. The group that i ride with are very well educated in avy conditions and rescue, but sometimes we catch ourselves having blind spots or not having full situational awarness but not on purpose. Or maybe there should be another list of levels that pertain to situational awareness. just a thought...

You are sssoooo right but that is where a REAL friend will chime in.:nod::nod: It is very easy to get caught up in the fun without thinking:face-icon-small-blu:anyone who says they haven't is lying not just to you but to himself.:heh: I think you have come up with a great post. Keep up the good work. I for one appreciate when strangers:face-icon-small-coo express their concern for our safety.....Terry
 
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